[CoC] Fwd: In Your Footsteps

[Kristopher Hammer]

Does the proposed design include a heat recovery ventilation (HRV)  or
energy recovery ventilation (ERV)  component? I think I we discussed this
as part of the Building for the Future project. My understanding is that
these systems are usually installed ( and seem to work better) if operated
separately from the heating system. It may make sense not to try to
incorporate ventilation into the existing heat plant to give use more
flexibility in the future to change it out the heating system as new
options become available. I would think a stand alone HRV/ERV system would
cheaper to design and install than pne that needs to integrate with the
heat plant.

On Sun, May 2, 2021, 21:22 Paul Ohlson via CoC <
coc at unitarianchurchofmontpelier.org> wrote:

> FYI. More info from Belmont, MA. Supports the direction we are leaning.
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Paul Ohlson <ohlson14 at gmail.com>
> *Date:* May 2, 2021 at 9:22:43 AM EDT
> *To:* Jody Renouf <jodyrenouf at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Allen Clark <VTCLARKS at aol.com>, Barbara Conrey <bdconrey at gmail.com>,
> Scott Hess <scottphess at gmail.com>, Tina Muncy <tmuncy at myfairpoint.net>,
> Victor Guadagno <victorgeemail at gmail.com>, Sam James <srjames at srjames.com>
> *Subject:* *Re: In Your Footsteps*
>
> Hi Jody,
>
> Thank you very much for your swift, complete reply! I know I speak for all
> of us when I say that your experience ratifies the direction we are headed
> and that this Vermont congregation appreciates the sharing of your
> learnings.
>
> It is reassuring to know that the design services we know are essential
> are, indeed, expensive whether in Massachusetts or Vermont. Today our
> Governing Board and others of us will be hosting discussion in our Zoom
> coffee hour on our proposed annual budget as well as reopening strategies
> and clean air fixes. We’ve put together some excellent FAQs and their
> answers (as best we can at this point). We are at some disadvantage as we
> cannot firmly predict the project costs without a complete design. Time
> will tell.
>
> Again, Jody, thank you very much for your willingness to share your
> Belmont experience with us. I know that Allen and Claudia Clark found their
> time with you on the phone very helpful and reaffirming of the direction we
> are heading.
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
> On May 2, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Jody Renouf <jodyrenouf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul.
>
> Here are my answers to your questions:
>
> 1. Yes $40,000 is in the ballpark. First Church in Belmont's design work
> is less ($30k, 10%) of the total project cost, although a couple things
> probably make that percentage lower than expected:
>
>    - Our engineer did not manage the entire bidding process.
>    - The engineer had already worked on other projects in the building,
>    so was familiar with many of the systems already.
>
> 2. There were no existing ducts in the 1889 part of our building. All of
> that ventilation ductwork is new. The 2004 addition already had adequate
> ductwork.
> 3. New heat sources were considered everywhere but only technically and
> financially feasible in one area.
>
>    - The 1889 sanctuary still has steam radiators, and would require a
>    separate architecturally-focused project to replace.
>    - The new ventilation system in the 1889 sanctuary has a heating coil
>    that can be connected to a non-gas heating source in the future.
>    - The steam radiators in the 1889 parlor and minister's office are
>    getting replaced with air source heat pumps as part of this project.
>    - Our 2004 addition will still have gas (furnace) heat because a heat
>    pump ventilation system will not fit on the roof. As part of the
>    engineering, we got drawings for heating coils in the 2004 addition that
>    could be installed at a later date and connected to a non-gas heating
>    source.
>
> 4. There were two town hall meetings, and other small Q&A sessions, to
> educate the congregation. Our parish board president, and the board in
> general, have been helpful in framing the message: ventilation is necessary
> for this and future health concerns, and our entire building lacks
> ventilation unless we open windows. The 1889 section was built with a few
> operable windows, and the 2004 addition was built with two
> ventilation systems: one that only brought in fresh air very rarely, in
> "economizer" mode, and the other that never functioned at all.
>
> Thank you, and best of luck to you all,
> - Jody
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:45 PM Paul Ohlson <ohlson14 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jody,
>>
>> It seems like our Montpelier, VT UU church is following pretty closely in
>> your footsteps in Belmont. We will likely be asking our congregation in a
>> couple of weeks to approve up to $250,000 to design a new ventilation
>> system that introduces fresh, outside air to our heating system as well as
>> carefully filtering the recirculating air. Our job will also include
>> removal and replacement of all existing ductwork but not the heating
>> sources (2 hot air furnaces).
>>
>> I’d like to ask you a few questions if I may….
>>
>> First the design work. Can you tell us what % of the total project was
>> the design work? We are working with a mechanical engineer that we all like
>> but wonder about her estimate of $40,000 to design the system, review
>> contractors’ bids to fabricate and install the system, and finally to
>> review the system’s commissioning. Does $40,000 sound like it’s in the
>> ballpark?
>>
>> Second, was there a price for simply removing your old heating system
>> ducts?
>>
>> Third, did your project include a new heating source (furnace, boilers,
>> heat pumps, etc.)?
>>
>> Fourth, how did you educate the congregation on the need for spending
>> $350,000 simply for cleaner air? Did you tell them that a new ventilation
>> system was a prerequisite for fully reopening?
>>
>> While we are taking this big step with confidence we sure would like to
>> learn everything we can from those who have been there, done that.
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your willingness to respond to these questions.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Paul Ohlson, Property Committee Chair
>> Unitarian Church of Montpelier
>>
>>
>>
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